This is possibly the best piece written in recent memory about Trump and Trumpism, and certainly the most beautiful. Mostly it makes me wish there were more writers these days for whom "deep Brooklyn" is a subject of affection, not derision (which is really a wish for a time when NYC media was run by outer borough ethnics like you and I, not Midwestern transplants drunk on Gossip Girl).
Is "Saturday Night Fever" the last great work of outer-outer-borough art? Or is there something else that speaks to our psyche, one that's less than half a century old? (I'd make a case for the music of Type O Negative, but there's gotta be something more direct.) Perhaps this is the void you're filling with "Glass Century" !!
Is it the last great outer borough work of art? Film-wise, it's up there. Lethem's novels of the 00s certainly belong in the canon, capturing pre-gentrification downtown Brooklyn. And thank you for the kind words.
I feel seen. Born and raised in the Windsor Terrace part of Park Slope back before gentrification in a row house. The neighborhood could best be described as 'Irish Italian city worker'. Went to a Catholic high school in Bay Ridge in the mid 80's. Your descriptions of that neighborhood in that time period are absolutely bang on. The outer borough sensibility rings absolutely true to me.
Yes, Windsor Terrace and Bay Ridge had a lot in common; Bay Ridge, being further away, held out against gentrification much longer. It's a slower creep here.
This should be archived. People will want to read this (including eventual Trump biographers) in years to come. And a gorgeous retrospective of "Saturday Night Fever " - an all time favorite- and one of those rare wonders that catches you off guard once you realize you're watching something so much more human and interesting than its hype.
This is a very good analysis. I grew up in the Boston suburbs, and there are similar cultural forces in play there. What I especially like about this is that it is a serious effort to understand Trump that isn’t primarily driven by either rage or adulation. He’s treated as an objective historical phenomenon, and the usual tools of analysis, including trying to discern the impact of his origin and upbringing, can be fruitfully employed. It’s great to see it, and a relief. I think most people, whether they’ve ordered for him, or against him, would prefer to turn the temperature down and have a less emotion – driven approach to understanding the man.
Thank you, yes, I was attempting more of a study that removed pure partisan politics out of it. I do think Boston has a similar dynamic with the working class Catholics there.
Hence why it is important to keep in mind that Mike Bloomberg grew up in working class Medford, MA next to Somerville(all pre gentrification) so there definitely an element of Bloomberg's life story that is very outer boroughs.
Lovely piece, Ross. I feel a bit of overlap, as a Jewish kid growing up amongst working and middle class Catholic ethnics in Springfield, Mass., though I was never of the culture in the way it sounds like you were. We didn't have a ton of money but my parents were pretty educated, and we had enough cultural capital to separate us. It has always been interesting to me, though, how wrongly people tend to get Massachusetts when they imagine it as this deep blue progressive island. There are pockets of that, in the suburbs of Boston and in the Berkshires, but so much of Mass is that kind of small-c conservative Catholic ethnic vibe. It really could flip red if not for the density of Boston and how much of a tech, financial, and higher ed hub it has become.
This also reminded me of the shots in WORKING GIRL (and basic story of Melanie Griffith’s character, or maybe more so Alec Baldwin’s) looking across the water from Staten Island.
I watched Working Girl again tonight. I think there is actually a bit of similarity between the Kate Sullivan character in Other People's Money and Tess McGill in Working Girl. Kate Sullivan in Other People's Money is like Tess 10 years after the end of Working Girl. In the theatrical version of Other People's Money Sullivan is extremely disdainful of the blue collar male workforce of New England Wire and Cable many of which she went to school with. At some level she thinks they all deserve to lose their jobs and is only interested in helping New England Wire and Cable to the degree it helps her professionally and personally as a high powered corporate lawyer. In the theatrical version Sullivan ends up looking at the blue collar workers much the same way that Tess McGill in Working Girl ends up viewing the Alec Baldwin character(There is a scene in the movie roughly at the 50 minute mark where she yells at her step father played by Gregory Peck and calls him a pig header fool he deserve to lose his company for not wanting to take any of her advice to try to settle with Garfield but would cause many of the employees to be laid off). I feel like there is also a common thread from Saturday Night Fever to Working Girl to Other People's Money of women even women from very working class backgrounds leaving blue collar males in the dust so to speak.
**Also I can't get over the symbolism of the Penelope Ann Miller character(Kate Sullivan) flying on a helicopter out of the same heliport in Manhattan back to her blue collar New England hometown that Sigourney Weaver arrives at in Working Girl.
Roger Ebert did a great review of Saturday Night Fever as part of his Great Movies series. He dedicated it to his friend, Gene Siskel - Siskel’s favorite movie. Siskel loved it so much he bid on Travolta’s suit at an auction.
Trump was and is a brilliant marketer of himself. That is his genius. But as a real estate investor, he is mocked by Manhattan even by those who support him.
He had broad appeal to most of America, but never to Manhattan where he will always be viewed as declasse. In a word, as a very wealthy and problematic prole.
Again I would argue that someone like Mike Bloomberg wasn't born part of the club(born in Medford, MA outside of Boston) but did make it in a way Trump never did but a big part of the reason was Bloomberg was actually a successful business person that provided a product a lot of people were willing to pay a lot of money for. There are always tensions in the Manhattan elite between the more business/financial types and the cultural media ones. When RCA corporate(which owned NBC) at 30 Rock found out about this obscure tv station owner in Georgia named Ted Turned had this idea of creating a 24 news channel there were many in RCA corporate who wanted to either buy Turner out or steal the idea for themselves and create basically what we now know as MSNBC way back in 1980. NBC News though downstairs at the 30 Rock was totally aghast that some elements of RCA corporate were at all interested in what this "redneck" independent tv station owner from Atlanta was doing. My own view is at that antitrust issues were the deciding factor. The three major TV networks were far more monopolistic than they are today and RCA had already been in a lot of hot water for doing things like stealing FM radio from its creator Edwin Armstrong in the 1950s. But my point stands there was a divide between NBC News and RCA Corporate both located at 30 Rock.
**Ironically I would argue that Ted Turner again is someone who didn't start in the elite but is far more accepted than say Trump due to his philanthropic work, etc. Turner and Bloomberg are actually rich people whereas Trump just plays a rich person on tv.
Sheepshead Bay to Manhattan and then Los Angeles, reporting in to say what a great, great piece this is. I always find it wild how the transplants never really understand this dynamic, even if they live in Manhattan for 50 years.
I've always said that Trump is a poor person's idea of a rich person, but you've filled that one dimensional picture in with so much more vibrancy and detail. Thanks for sharing this, Ross.
Ross, as a 41-year-old who grew up in Brighton Beach, I want to thank you for this excellent piece of writing. I related so much to the quote about the train ride from "deep" Brooklyn to Manhattan being one of the longest rides. Completely on-point. I live in Park Slope now, and it couldn't be further from how I grew up. I went to high school in Murrow and the Park Slope kids seemed so much more developed and well dressed than me. I didn't get it at the time, but things are much clearer now. Thank you for this piece.
Ross excellent writing that paints a picture of NYC that can be understood by someone who has never been there. In our beloved south, Manhattan would be old money and Fred would be new money, and could never be part of the club…
This is possibly the best piece written in recent memory about Trump and Trumpism, and certainly the most beautiful. Mostly it makes me wish there were more writers these days for whom "deep Brooklyn" is a subject of affection, not derision (which is really a wish for a time when NYC media was run by outer borough ethnics like you and I, not Midwestern transplants drunk on Gossip Girl).
Is "Saturday Night Fever" the last great work of outer-outer-borough art? Or is there something else that speaks to our psyche, one that's less than half a century old? (I'd make a case for the music of Type O Negative, but there's gotta be something more direct.) Perhaps this is the void you're filling with "Glass Century" !!
Is it the last great outer borough work of art? Film-wise, it's up there. Lethem's novels of the 00s certainly belong in the canon, capturing pre-gentrification downtown Brooklyn. And thank you for the kind words.
I feel seen. Born and raised in the Windsor Terrace part of Park Slope back before gentrification in a row house. The neighborhood could best be described as 'Irish Italian city worker'. Went to a Catholic high school in Bay Ridge in the mid 80's. Your descriptions of that neighborhood in that time period are absolutely bang on. The outer borough sensibility rings absolutely true to me.
Yes, Windsor Terrace and Bay Ridge had a lot in common; Bay Ridge, being further away, held out against gentrification much longer. It's a slower creep here.
Agree with everything Quiara said
This should be archived. People will want to read this (including eventual Trump biographers) in years to come. And a gorgeous retrospective of "Saturday Night Fever " - an all time favorite- and one of those rare wonders that catches you off guard once you realize you're watching something so much more human and interesting than its hype.
thank you Michael, I appreciate that!
This is a very good analysis. I grew up in the Boston suburbs, and there are similar cultural forces in play there. What I especially like about this is that it is a serious effort to understand Trump that isn’t primarily driven by either rage or adulation. He’s treated as an objective historical phenomenon, and the usual tools of analysis, including trying to discern the impact of his origin and upbringing, can be fruitfully employed. It’s great to see it, and a relief. I think most people, whether they’ve ordered for him, or against him, would prefer to turn the temperature down and have a less emotion – driven approach to understanding the man.
Thank you, yes, I was attempting more of a study that removed pure partisan politics out of it. I do think Boston has a similar dynamic with the working class Catholics there.
Hence why it is important to keep in mind that Mike Bloomberg grew up in working class Medford, MA next to Somerville(all pre gentrification) so there definitely an element of Bloomberg's life story that is very outer boroughs.
Maybe my fave post from you ever Ross. Entertaining and insightful and fantastic writing too.
Thank you Anne! I've enjoyed reading about your journeys into the oddities of southern Brooklyn
In the past few weeks, you've risen straight to the top of my personal Substack Power Rankings. This piece is another reason why. Keep it up!
I will try to stay high on the rankings, haha, thank you
Lovely piece, Ross. I feel a bit of overlap, as a Jewish kid growing up amongst working and middle class Catholic ethnics in Springfield, Mass., though I was never of the culture in the way it sounds like you were. We didn't have a ton of money but my parents were pretty educated, and we had enough cultural capital to separate us. It has always been interesting to me, though, how wrongly people tend to get Massachusetts when they imagine it as this deep blue progressive island. There are pockets of that, in the suburbs of Boston and in the Berkshires, but so much of Mass is that kind of small-c conservative Catholic ethnic vibe. It really could flip red if not for the density of Boston and how much of a tech, financial, and higher ed hub it has become.
Yes, I think there's definitely overlap, conservative working class Catholic areas on the East Coast share much culturally
This also reminded me of the shots in WORKING GIRL (and basic story of Melanie Griffith’s character, or maybe more so Alec Baldwin’s) looking across the water from Staten Island.
I watched Working Girl again tonight. I think there is actually a bit of similarity between the Kate Sullivan character in Other People's Money and Tess McGill in Working Girl. Kate Sullivan in Other People's Money is like Tess 10 years after the end of Working Girl. In the theatrical version of Other People's Money Sullivan is extremely disdainful of the blue collar male workforce of New England Wire and Cable many of which she went to school with. At some level she thinks they all deserve to lose their jobs and is only interested in helping New England Wire and Cable to the degree it helps her professionally and personally as a high powered corporate lawyer. In the theatrical version Sullivan ends up looking at the blue collar workers much the same way that Tess McGill in Working Girl ends up viewing the Alec Baldwin character(There is a scene in the movie roughly at the 50 minute mark where she yells at her step father played by Gregory Peck and calls him a pig header fool he deserve to lose his company for not wanting to take any of her advice to try to settle with Garfield but would cause many of the employees to be laid off). I feel like there is also a common thread from Saturday Night Fever to Working Girl to Other People's Money of women even women from very working class backgrounds leaving blue collar males in the dust so to speak.
**Also I can't get over the symbolism of the Penelope Ann Miller character(Kate Sullivan) flying on a helicopter out of the same heliport in Manhattan back to her blue collar New England hometown that Sigourney Weaver arrives at in Working Girl.
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-saturday-night-fever-1977
Roger Ebert did a great review of Saturday Night Fever as part of his Great Movies series. He dedicated it to his friend, Gene Siskel - Siskel’s favorite movie. Siskel loved it so much he bid on Travolta’s suit at an auction.
Trump was and is a brilliant marketer of himself. That is his genius. But as a real estate investor, he is mocked by Manhattan even by those who support him.
He had broad appeal to most of America, but never to Manhattan where he will always be viewed as declasse. In a word, as a very wealthy and problematic prole.
Again I would argue that someone like Mike Bloomberg wasn't born part of the club(born in Medford, MA outside of Boston) but did make it in a way Trump never did but a big part of the reason was Bloomberg was actually a successful business person that provided a product a lot of people were willing to pay a lot of money for. There are always tensions in the Manhattan elite between the more business/financial types and the cultural media ones. When RCA corporate(which owned NBC) at 30 Rock found out about this obscure tv station owner in Georgia named Ted Turned had this idea of creating a 24 news channel there were many in RCA corporate who wanted to either buy Turner out or steal the idea for themselves and create basically what we now know as MSNBC way back in 1980. NBC News though downstairs at the 30 Rock was totally aghast that some elements of RCA corporate were at all interested in what this "redneck" independent tv station owner from Atlanta was doing. My own view is at that antitrust issues were the deciding factor. The three major TV networks were far more monopolistic than they are today and RCA had already been in a lot of hot water for doing things like stealing FM radio from its creator Edwin Armstrong in the 1950s. But my point stands there was a divide between NBC News and RCA Corporate both located at 30 Rock.
**Ironically I would argue that Ted Turner again is someone who didn't start in the elite but is far more accepted than say Trump due to his philanthropic work, etc. Turner and Bloomberg are actually rich people whereas Trump just plays a rich person on tv.
Sheepshead Bay to Manhattan and then Los Angeles, reporting in to say what a great, great piece this is. I always find it wild how the transplants never really understand this dynamic, even if they live in Manhattan for 50 years.
Thank you! Yes, very much so, and if you look at a presidential map of Brooklyn now, it really is blood-red on the southern half now.
Archie Bunker's house was on Cooper Avenue in Glendale, Queens, about five miles from the Trump family home on Wareham Place in Jamaica Estates.
I've always said that Trump is a poor person's idea of a rich person, but you've filled that one dimensional picture in with so much more vibrancy and detail. Thanks for sharing this, Ross.
Ross, as a 41-year-old who grew up in Brighton Beach, I want to thank you for this excellent piece of writing. I related so much to the quote about the train ride from "deep" Brooklyn to Manhattan being one of the longest rides. Completely on-point. I live in Park Slope now, and it couldn't be further from how I grew up. I went to high school in Murrow and the Park Slope kids seemed so much more developed and well dressed than me. I didn't get it at the time, but things are much clearer now. Thank you for this piece.
Ross excellent writing that paints a picture of NYC that can be understood by someone who has never been there. In our beloved south, Manhattan would be old money and Fred would be new money, and could never be part of the club…
Oh yeah, back in the day.
I grew up close enough to Trump that we might have gone to the same public school (PS178) if he had gone to public school.
My little league baseball team was the 10th A.D. Dems.
Hard to imagine that now.
Wonderfully done, Ross. With a slightly different vocabulary, could almost be an English analysis. Bravo.