It always seemed to me that progressives and Democrats rejected Rogan not because they didn’t grasp his immense popularity, but precisely because they did. And legitimizing him within their circles would’ve meant diluting their own influence.
I assume that there will be no heir to Bernie, or at least to the big time Bernie of the presidential campaigns.
The leftmost influential faction of elected Democratic politicians going forward will consist of people like AOC and Warren, because (a) the left is too heavily invested in non-redistributional culturally coded issues to focus centrally on the working class. I bet that instead moderates like Gluesenkamp Perez and Jared Golden will do a better job winning those votes than mainstream or left Dems. (b) The support of lower income and less educated Americans could certainly be bought. If they could see Democrats making their lives better in a meaningful way on the federal level (or even if blue states were clearly better places to raise a family on a low income), that would make a difference. But we can't deliver and so difference between the parties isn't as clear as one would like it to be.
Issues in the (a) camp aren't just annoying wokeness concerns but things like fighting climate change that one really can't give up on, but which tie Democrats firmly to the better off and educated. I'd like for Democrats to be a worker's party but if you look around the world such a thing doesn't really exist anymore except in Latin America, with minor exceptions like Sara Wagenknecht.
I've found the PSL ultraleft takes on AOC (not what you're expressing, but among socialists this is a persistent pole in discussions about her) to be silly, and a lot of the Jimmy Dore-inspired invective directed at her four years ago for not forcing a vote on Medicare for All was rather tone deaf to the political realities she faced operating within the Democratic Party. However, the only weapon socialists have in US *electoral* politics is the Democratic Primary (sorta like the main weapon of a union is the strike). Dem primaries have provided the biggest platforms for agitation-based campaigns that, by necessity, the media has to cover. Her victory in 2018 demonstrated how powerfully it can move the needle! But she declined to challenge either Hochul for NY Governor, or Gillibrand for Senate. If you aren't challenging them, and calling them out, then you are not applying leftward pressure, which allows their grift to continue. For me this was the moment I realized AOC's priorities were changing. I don't think this has to be the case in the future. Voters are fickle and American political memories are short. She can start tacking to the left again if she wants. Whether she will is another story.
AOC is more and more a disappointment. She seems to have been sucked in and spiraling in the stereotypical career trajectory of those who seek political power as a career rather than as a tool for true societal change.
It isn’t stupid to promote protecting the U.S. and world against Trump. She like many others saw his threat to democracy. This was not a play it was a need.
To me this is all insane. If we define the left as the maximalist, spoilerist, holdout, internal opposition faction within the Democratic party, then of course someone broadly at peace with Democratic leadership can't lead the left. But that is a stupid definition. Temperamental preference for conflict and distrust of anyone who seems too happy is a characteristic flaw of the left, but not the left's defining feature. Even I wouldn't say that!
After the election the Democratic Party (my party) must rethink many of its policies as it ponders its future.
To be entrusted with power again Democrats must start listening to the concerns of the working class for a change. As a lifelong moderate Democrat I share their distain for many of the insane positions advocated by my party.
Democrat politicians defy biology by believing that men can actually become women and belong in women’s sports, rest rooms, locker rooms and prisons and that children should be mutilated in pursuit of the impossible.
They believe borders should be open to millions of illegals which undermines workers’ wages and the affordability of housing when we can’t house our own citizens.
They discriminate against whites, Asians and men in a vain effort to counter past discrimination against others and undermine our economy by abandoning merit selection of students and employees.
Democratic mayors allow homelessness to destroy our beautiful cities because they won't say no to destructive behavior. No you can’t camp in this city. No you can’t shit in our streets No you can’t shoot up and leave your used needles everywhere. Many of our prosecutors will not take action against shoplifting unless a $1000 of goods are stolen leading to gangs destroying retail stores. They release criminals without bond to rob and murder again.
The average voter knows this is happening and outright reject our party. Enough.
Whatever her brand was - she definitely made it more difficult to discern what she actually believes. No way can she be a liberal and also support someone who was touting her endorsement of the Cheney's. A completely disqualifying event.
So in other words: AOC is yet another career politician, with very little life experience outside of living on the taxpayers dime.
And to top it off, she has shown EXACTLY how high she prides her principles. A supposedly eager supporter of the Palestinian cause, who has no qualms about campaigning for the candidate who’s delivering the bombs that kill Palestinians.
Is that REALLY who the left wants leading it? Doesn’t the left deserve better?
It’s interesting there’s even a difference between Bernie and AOC in the way they talk about Gazan suffering. Bernie emphasizes the poverty, the destruction, the death of children, the hungry children. AOC’s criticism seems to be more abstract, even if equally intense. She talks about their “humanity”, “shared struggle” for Palestinians.
A/c Gaza there seems to be a strong current on the left to pull out of the Dems. But won’t that be a mistake? The left has built up dome influence — the Squad, the Progressive Caucus. Shouldn’t the left have an inside/outside strategy. The goal is to build a labor party but that won’t happen overnight. Won’t withdrawal only isolate the left even further?
This essay unpacks some of what, Ross, you alluded to Saturday in your “Twilight of the Liberal Left”. But I think you here understate the pull that AOC still commands within NYC-DSA. This is evidenced by member polling at endorsement decisions in spring/summer 2024. Also NYC chapter activists have tussled and tugged between national and NYC DSA.
On the flip side of that, one might take onboard the extent to which AOC has not only muffled herself about DSA and sidestepped it and Bernie Sanders as you write. More, AOC has opposed DSA and scolded its pro-Palestinian activists:
What do make of the argument Nick Rafter and others have made that even in 2016 Bernie had already moved towards the cultural/intersectional left and that the whole Occupy Wall Street movement was based not on class but cultural/intersectional issues?
It always seemed to me that progressives and Democrats rejected Rogan not because they didn’t grasp his immense popularity, but precisely because they did. And legitimizing him within their circles would’ve meant diluting their own influence.
AOC is so young that she has time to evolve as she herself matures and as our politics evolve. It will be fascinating to watch her career.
I assume that there will be no heir to Bernie, or at least to the big time Bernie of the presidential campaigns.
The leftmost influential faction of elected Democratic politicians going forward will consist of people like AOC and Warren, because (a) the left is too heavily invested in non-redistributional culturally coded issues to focus centrally on the working class. I bet that instead moderates like Gluesenkamp Perez and Jared Golden will do a better job winning those votes than mainstream or left Dems. (b) The support of lower income and less educated Americans could certainly be bought. If they could see Democrats making their lives better in a meaningful way on the federal level (or even if blue states were clearly better places to raise a family on a low income), that would make a difference. But we can't deliver and so difference between the parties isn't as clear as one would like it to be.
Issues in the (a) camp aren't just annoying wokeness concerns but things like fighting climate change that one really can't give up on, but which tie Democrats firmly to the better off and educated. I'd like for Democrats to be a worker's party but if you look around the world such a thing doesn't really exist anymore except in Latin America, with minor exceptions like Sara Wagenknecht.
I've found the PSL ultraleft takes on AOC (not what you're expressing, but among socialists this is a persistent pole in discussions about her) to be silly, and a lot of the Jimmy Dore-inspired invective directed at her four years ago for not forcing a vote on Medicare for All was rather tone deaf to the political realities she faced operating within the Democratic Party. However, the only weapon socialists have in US *electoral* politics is the Democratic Primary (sorta like the main weapon of a union is the strike). Dem primaries have provided the biggest platforms for agitation-based campaigns that, by necessity, the media has to cover. Her victory in 2018 demonstrated how powerfully it can move the needle! But she declined to challenge either Hochul for NY Governor, or Gillibrand for Senate. If you aren't challenging them, and calling them out, then you are not applying leftward pressure, which allows their grift to continue. For me this was the moment I realized AOC's priorities were changing. I don't think this has to be the case in the future. Voters are fickle and American political memories are short. She can start tacking to the left again if she wants. Whether she will is another story.
AOC is more and more a disappointment. She seems to have been sucked in and spiraling in the stereotypical career trajectory of those who seek political power as a career rather than as a tool for true societal change.
It isn’t stupid to promote protecting the U.S. and world against Trump. She like many others saw his threat to democracy. This was not a play it was a need.
Please. Does anyone grasp how loathed AOC generally is in the US? She's symbolic of what the general public emphatically do not want.
To me this is all insane. If we define the left as the maximalist, spoilerist, holdout, internal opposition faction within the Democratic party, then of course someone broadly at peace with Democratic leadership can't lead the left. But that is a stupid definition. Temperamental preference for conflict and distrust of anyone who seems too happy is a characteristic flaw of the left, but not the left's defining feature. Even I wouldn't say that!
After the election the Democratic Party (my party) must rethink many of its policies as it ponders its future.
To be entrusted with power again Democrats must start listening to the concerns of the working class for a change. As a lifelong moderate Democrat I share their distain for many of the insane positions advocated by my party.
Democrat politicians defy biology by believing that men can actually become women and belong in women’s sports, rest rooms, locker rooms and prisons and that children should be mutilated in pursuit of the impossible.
They believe borders should be open to millions of illegals which undermines workers’ wages and the affordability of housing when we can’t house our own citizens.
They discriminate against whites, Asians and men in a vain effort to counter past discrimination against others and undermine our economy by abandoning merit selection of students and employees.
Democratic mayors allow homelessness to destroy our beautiful cities because they won't say no to destructive behavior. No you can’t camp in this city. No you can’t shit in our streets No you can’t shoot up and leave your used needles everywhere. Many of our prosecutors will not take action against shoplifting unless a $1000 of goods are stolen leading to gangs destroying retail stores. They release criminals without bond to rob and murder again.
The average voter knows this is happening and outright reject our party. Enough.
Don’t forget how eagerly and easily the Democrats have embraced neocon warmongering.
Whatever her brand was - she definitely made it more difficult to discern what she actually believes. No way can she be a liberal and also support someone who was touting her endorsement of the Cheney's. A completely disqualifying event.
So in other words: AOC is yet another career politician, with very little life experience outside of living on the taxpayers dime.
And to top it off, she has shown EXACTLY how high she prides her principles. A supposedly eager supporter of the Palestinian cause, who has no qualms about campaigning for the candidate who’s delivering the bombs that kill Palestinians.
Is that REALLY who the left wants leading it? Doesn’t the left deserve better?
It’s interesting there’s even a difference between Bernie and AOC in the way they talk about Gazan suffering. Bernie emphasizes the poverty, the destruction, the death of children, the hungry children. AOC’s criticism seems to be more abstract, even if equally intense. She talks about their “humanity”, “shared struggle” for Palestinians.
A/c Gaza there seems to be a strong current on the left to pull out of the Dems. But won’t that be a mistake? The left has built up dome influence — the Squad, the Progressive Caucus. Shouldn’t the left have an inside/outside strategy. The goal is to build a labor party but that won’t happen overnight. Won’t withdrawal only isolate the left even further?
Btw: It’s quite interesting that AOC recently took her pronouns out of her bio.
Guess she’s really gunning for a leadership role.
This essay unpacks some of what, Ross, you alluded to Saturday in your “Twilight of the Liberal Left”. But I think you here understate the pull that AOC still commands within NYC-DSA. This is evidenced by member polling at endorsement decisions in spring/summer 2024. Also NYC chapter activists have tussled and tugged between national and NYC DSA.
On the flip side of that, one might take onboard the extent to which AOC has not only muffled herself about DSA and sidestepped it and Bernie Sanders as you write. More, AOC has opposed DSA and scolded its pro-Palestinian activists:
https://bit.ly/TraceM-2024-6_11
She's got great pull within NYC DSA. I'm talking more on the scale of what Bernie still enjoys, and pulled off in '16 and '20
So many strands pulled together here. Great stuff. One thought: what about AIPAC bumping off some of the Squad?
They got the low hanging fruit but I'm not sure who else they can hit. Omar, AOC, and Tlaib are all in safe districts.
Bernie’s non-enthusiasm in this campaign was quite obvious which was evident in the video him trying to sway anti-war protestors a week ago.
What do make of the argument Nick Rafter and others have made that even in 2016 Bernie had already moved towards the cultural/intersectional left and that the whole Occupy Wall Street movement was based not on class but cultural/intersectional issues?
https://nickrafter.substack.com/p/bernie-sanders-can-take-a-seat
Shaun Fain would be a great left leader.